Curse

Lady Lozza · Mar 12, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

I'm in Xander(OP)'s guild and I'm Christian and I have no problem with him. Just a brief statement on that whole entire thing. Christians should know that while being homosexual is evil in our religion so are we in nearly everything we do. That's the way I view it at least.

As for my own experiences, I've been told I have no life and that I can't have the body (not that it's great) that I do cause I play this game all the time (not all the time!).

Gareth what I was getting at, and perhaps failing miserably in, is that there is faith and there is religion, and here is how I see them:

Faith is a personal thing that most like to keep close to them. They will talk about it, if asked, in an environment where they don't feel threatened - but it is personal and they don't expect others to believe in the same thing, or the same way they do.

Religion is endoctrinated. It has hard and fast rules that people (in their turn) decide to interpret in any manner which pleases them. The religious cling to the symbols and words of their religion often because they know no other way, and the expect everyone around them to live by the same rules and to the same standards. Religious zealots are another matter altogether - they take their religion to the extreme.

A girl I grew up with was deeply religious. Anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, anti-everything-that-isn't-approved-by-the-bible. Late last year she got married. Perhaps only as a token gesture (having known her for so long) I was invited to the wedding. To my very great surprise I discovered she was no longer religious, she merely had a faith. She didn't understand homosexuality, but no longer believed them to be evil. She believe they could be christian, believed they could do good things. She understood why women would want an abortion, she'd never do it herself but she understood that sometimes for some people, it was the best option available. She had even participated in bedroom romps before marriage - which left me gobsmacked considering last time we'd talked she'd been very critical of my rather liberal lifestyle. What she had was faith. She believed in god, she believed in the edicts of "faith", rather than the edicts of religion.

Anyhow, this is getting off-topic a little. My point is this - religion has no place in guilds of a fairly non-religious bend. Faith is (and should) be allowed but "religion" is a big no in my mind.

Kusandaa · Mar 12, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

I'm in Xander(OP)'s guild and I'm Christian and I have no problem with him. Just a brief statement on that whole entire thing. Christians should know that while being homosexual is evil in our religion so are we in nearly everything we do. That's the way I view it at least.

As for my own experiences, I've been told I have no life and that I can't have the body (not that it's great) that I do cause I play this game all the time (not all the time!).

Gareth's a prime example of those religious folks I love chatting with :P. Even though your views on things are different, both parties respect each other and learn from each other. It's really interesting to see why people act in such way, believe in something else than you, etc etc. This... international aspect of GW really appeals to me, probably because I come from an "international" place (Montreal, Quebec) and it's my study field (Eastern-Asian Studies) anyways.

As for my own experiences... here's a list.

As most people know by now (we even consider it as a scientific fact in the HiDE alliance), I'm openly gay and I'll die before hiding it >_>. I'm provoking at times and I talk a lot. If you join as a PUG in a mostly alliance group, you'll know it at some point. Now to this, I've had reactions ranging from "OMFG STAY AWAY FROM ME U HOMO!!!!!!" to "I'm about to squee my pants off, a gay guy!

". I've had ragequits because I'm gay. And some people change attitudes really fast, and it does bother me a lot.

Over a year back, I was in ToPK. Started chatting to this other Quebecer (I can't remember my position within the group, but he was complimenting me and such, and I was happy I had found someone in the same area!). I said something about my boyfriend (who's now my husband) outta nowhere and the guy starts raging at me really bad. His attitude changed from "oh wow you're a nice guy!" to "GO **** YOURSELF UR SICK GET TREATED" within maybe 20 seconds. He eventually rage-quit. Such things tend to leave me sour, as I haven't changed between the moment I was doing the action and the moment I came out to you. It's how I got over the realization I was gay - I haven't changed. I'm not more feminine and I didn't develop a lisp in 20 seconds... if I did I'd have been hella worried. O_o.

On religion topic, you can believe in the Easter Bunny if that's what you believe in! GOOD! It brings you comfort and doesn't hurt anyone or yourself? GOOD! Don't shove it down my throat and I'll happily talk about experiences. I may be atheist, but as much as I won't believe it, doesn't mean I won't enjoy learning about it. I seem to have developped this annoyance vs. a lot of Christians because they tell me how to live my life, but I've seen it done by other religions; just that I'm exposed to Christianity more than Buddhism or Islam.

I've also seen a lot of language/country discrimination, especially in European districts. Some people in the English d's barely speak English. Sure sometimes it's frustrating, especially when the only guy who speaks, let's say, Italian and Italian ONLY, doesn't follow instructions because he doesn't understand English. However, there's a lack of tolerance for this. Do I care that much that a Polish guild is recruiting in English d's? A Somalian guild in American d's? Erm... nope. One guy in LA Euro-Eng. 1 was going mad at two guys for spamming in Polish and Potuguese in English d's. I've seen more than one "go back to ur server frenchies" in DoA when some French-speaking group wants to fill a few spots because their server is dead ATM.

Oh and keep in mind not everyone's good at learning languages. My husband's French isn't very good, doesn't mean he's a dumbass. In fact he's very intelligent, he just has a harder time learning languages. But he draws much better than I do

.

And this issue really, really pisses me off. A lot of people seem to think that if you don't speak English, you're an idiot. I see this happen very often (and people who play in Euro d's more than I do must see it even more often). Am I the only one who's noticed this or am I just imagining this?

/end wall_of_text

psycore · Mar 12, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Here's one:

My main is a paragon - pug's automatically assume she is useless, that's a stereotype.

=P

Noel Hope · Mar 12, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

HEY! i find that offensive

Hehe, just a little monk humor.

kratimas · Mar 12, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Nope, IRL stereotypes have had no affect on me in-game at all.

Krat

RedNova88 · Mar 12, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Pandora, Rednova - this is not meant as a dig, but I really have to ask what is your stance on non-christians getting kicked from a christian guild?

I will not surmise under what misapprehensions people were under when you got kicked. I will not debate bad behaviour of anyone else towards you because of your faith. However the debate regarding guilds of "religious" bent has come up before and many people have debated the right to be in a guild with "like-minded" individuals. To suggest then that a guild non-religious in nature should accept those of a/any faith into their midst is a slight double standard.

Take the OP. He is openly homosexual. He'd be like a fish-out-of-water in a conservative guild. He'd possibly feel uncomfortable, and they'd definately feel uncomfortable. And while I think they need to get over it, freedom of religion (above all else) gives them the right to be as discriminatory as they wish (without descending into abuse) because their religion states that he is "evil" and no one can prevent them from following the edicts of their religion - provided it does not include illegal activities.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it is hard to balance religion (not faith) and freedom of expression. And many people simply believe that faith and religion are the same thing. It has little to do with education. People are not (always) stupid or dumb for fearing that a "christain" is likely to be a problem in a more liberal guild. What is has to do with is perception. People of sense will accept those who don't show adversion to their own principles - birds of a feather flock together.

Of your particular circumstances, I certainly cannot comment. But perhaps this is some food for thought.

The stero-type that gets me is the "ghay" one because everyone knows that "ghay is like... like bad".

Well I suppose I wouldn't mind an atheist in a Christian guild, but if it's one of those ALL Christian guilds I don't see how they would be able to join unless they lied about themselves to join in the first place, in which I can see it being appropriate for them to be kicked/asked to leave.

And for the record, although in Christianity we do indeed believe it to be wrong for someone to be homosexual "do not lay with a man as you would with a woman" or something such as that. The 10 commandments are much more important to uphold, and if I remember, the two most important are to honor your father and your mother, and to not murder. I find it sad that people will go out of their way to be prejudice and judgmental against someone gay/atheist/ or whatever when the Bible tells "Thou shall not judge". But I guess when some people read the Bible they only read the parts that appeal to them, so that they can feel invincible and still go about mocking and hating others for their own differences. But it's not as if I'm any better, none of us are.

Sorry to be so preachy but I just wanted to get my point/s across so that people will not assume that Christianity is about being a judgmental hate monger.

Truly sorry if this post offends anyone, it is not my intention. Also sorry if it goes off-topic.

EDIT: I see what you were getting at now, Lozza. Sorry to misinterpret your post (reading comprehension ftw!). I don't see why religion would be a bad thing in a guild, but to every man his own so whatever. I can't say I agree with your friend, though, but even so everyone is different and if we all can't respect each others beliefs then we are all at fault in that department.

I guess in my opinion in order to be true to something you cannot be too strict or too lenient, it requires balance and some finesse to make things right. That being said it's OK to be firm with your beliefs and follow them to the letter if you see fit, but do so while not pushing them on others and deeming them wrong/evil. After all Christianity and the Bible as a whole try to teach acceptance, love, peace, honor, and many other things that would only make the world better for us all.

DarkWasp · Mar 12, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Well it really depends.

I have never been the subject of stereotyping.

Part of the reason is because im a white American male... but most of the reason is because I act pretty neutral ingame.

Basickly, players pretty much have to ask what type of person I am. (Cept male, thats a given)

I've never been suspected of any other race, but a lot of people think im like 30... or... a dev.

As for seeing it, I'd have to say PvPers and Marketers are the WORST at stereotyping!
(Hows that for stereotyping stereotypers?)

As soon as America and Europe combined servers, all of LA flooded to the Euro servers spewing nothing but racism.

I decided to drop in and say "Yeah, Hello Europe. I'm an American like these fellas, probably around their age too... but you have my full permission to fly bombers over their houses. If you don't, I will"

Probably the most common stereotype is that Asians have small... uh.. manly features...

People used to be pretty loud about that in HA... I ALWAYS quit, if there are more than 3 saying stuff like that. I will NOT represent those teams.

If there like just 1 or 2 saying that, in team chat I always tell them that EVERY girl ive ever talked to who is NOT a slut doesnt really care about sizes. This atleast starts them arguing while we're fighting, causing them to be a liability to the team and the leader kicks them after we lose. Kind of a fun working method.

Kityn · Mar 12, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I have never been kicked from any Guild/Clan ever for any reason. My current Guild is made up of people from a discussion web site about the Wheel of Time novels. They were not sure at first to let non-Wotters in. I was the first non-Wotter in and they have not regetted that decision. Since then our guild will accept any person that is likeable and likes to help others.
I am against any Guild/Clan that limits who can join based on race,religious beliefs,ethnic background,ect ect.

*lemming* · Mar 12, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

I assume that all girls are bad at warrior.

I've yet to be disproven.

I'd like to point out that I'm not talking about PvE stance tanking with 10 weapon mastery.

Brayolnne · Mar 12, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I have not, as yet, experienced any hatred directed at me personally. However I must agree that I am noticing a definite trend in GW to racist, hateful conversations taking place in towns.

Personally I've stopped myself from reporting people several times because I'm not involved with the conversation and might be taking things "out of context" because of that. But the number of rude offensive conversations really needs to be curtailed. Things that I am personally tired of:

Anything that is gay (the slang, not the sexuality)
Who you are, or are not, willing to sleep with
Details of exactly what you're going to do with them when you sleep with them
What group(s) need to be segregated (at best) or decimated (at worst)
Why said group(s) should be so treated
When said group(s) should be so treated
Why you are at the head of the list to treat said group in said manner

In some cases I am sure that the person initiating these conversations is quite literally a Troll. I've considered reporting these characters, but would my efforts result in something like the Inquisition? Would my efforts cause Anet to react so decisively that we all start censoring our comments to an extreme? We're all human and make mistakes and occasionally need to blow off steam.

I don't want to /rageReport people... but must I be forced to /listenOutraged?

PS: Sellers & Recruiters unwilling to stop spamming the local chat, instead of using trade chat and/or party searchn (as appropriate). Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right. But this does not fall under the OP's intent for this topic.

ZenRgy · Mar 12, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I've rejected countless people from my guild because they are not me, or my girlfriend.

maraxusofk · Mar 12, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

i enjoy speaking in sterotypical accents on vent for lulz. on occasions, ill be known to flip out either bored british accents or careful american english jsut to shock ppl. other than that, i dont take offense at any racism because to let it offend you is dumb.

Hell Raiser · Mar 12, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Well luckily I have been with the same guild for about 2.5 years, and no one has shown any prejudice. I'm Christian and have no problem with homosexuals, whether being gay is a sin or not is not for me to decide. And if it is a sin, there is no point in emphasizing it over others (all sins are equal). I am, however, whole heartedly against abortion (I guess it is more of a personal issue, though), not sure if that counts as prejudice.

In my experience, racism seems to be the most prevalent prejudice in GW. I just hope that people can learn to ignore comments about their Race/Religion/Sexuality.

Mickey · Mar 12, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Was kicked out of one guild because I didn't speak French, even though everyone in the guild spoke both English and French, especially since the leader was a really nice guy, and we were good buddies, broke my in game heart.

I never get rejected from anything because I never PuG. End of story.

PyrAnkh · Mar 12, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Some people still have to get used to girls playing a game. Or more like not-that-ugly girls playing a game. I posted a picture of myself in the See Who Ya Play topic in offtopic a couple days ago. Then somebody replied asking me if it was fake, claiming that 'girls like that do not know how a computer works'.

Ingame i had some people think i was a guy pretending to be a girl (for what reason :S?), but i never got kicked out of pugs for it.

Other than that i have quite a few titles, but nobody ever told me i have no life

. I did get kicked from a french group once when i asked if they could talk english in teamchat.

Tatile · Mar 12, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Only thing really near to stereotypes is when I help someone in a mission and through chatting they come to the conclusion that I'm female because I'm 'nice'. A fair assumption, I am female afterall, but an odd one; it seems to imply that guys aren't all that nice or polite.

Then again I usually am quite polite, especially around strangers, but I can be wonderfully cruel at times. Heh, no wonder I like Slaanesh so much ^.~

stale · Mar 12, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

i've been booted from guilds when people figure out i'm a stoner. i don't talk about it in chat, particularly, but my primary chars IGN is "stale bongwater"....

beyond that, i'm more likely to leave a guild/group/etc because of it's member's behaiviour toward other groups than any comment put to me. i'm a white boy, a canuck... working stiff, married. very much the middle-of-the-road sort, so i don't attract most of that crap in the first place.

i refuse to assosciate with folks who engage in bigotry online though - which i suppose is in itself vaguely discriminatory. could say i discriminate aginst discrimination, if it didn't sound so bad that way...

oops, wait. i will discriminate against anyone using "leetspeak" "netspeek" etc. in chat. "Respect the English language, and keep it wholly." was something i learned young. spelling and punctuation is important to me, and when i see people who type things like "i is L337, wat r u talkin abt?" i assume they're incapable of managing the language and drop them. i do apologise, it's just how i am.

Macks Mistress · Mar 12, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

The only stereotype I've come across personally, is apprantly I shouldn't be on GW because I'm a girl and girls shouldn't play computer games!

Honestly

tmakinen · Mar 12, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

When the game was new I had the fortune of getting recruited to a guild of mature players who respect each other's opinions and are only intolerant to intolerance

so I can't say that I've met much bigotism in the game, other than that annoying little specieist Gwen in the EotN expansion ...

Seriously though, people who get their panties in a wad over your gender, sexual orientation, religion, native tongue or color of skin are the ones with the real problem, it's best to just /shrug it off and find more enlightened company.

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 12, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

i just cant stand stereotyping. why are people hating on something thats probably going to be bigger than what they are now? if my gw experience wasnt so violent itd be better *tear